Tag Archives: OD&D

Thief Roll

Jack from TOTGAD has an attractive house rule whereby he uses the “hear noise” d6 chance as the system for resolving all thief skills. This seems pretty reasonable to me, especially assuming that the alternative is the fixed percentile progression given in OD&D or B/X. All of the percentile skills start off rather low and slowly increase as levels are gained, with arbitrary differences between the various skills and no option to specialize in one skill over another (unlike the point buy systems of, for example, LotFP or Second Edition AD&D).

Looking at the OD&D thief (in Supplement I: Greyhawk), why does open locks start at 15% and move silently start at 20%? Do we really care about this distinction, given that all the skills start out at roughly the same level and increase at approximately the same rate? The one exception is climb walls, which starts out at 87%. But “always use hear noise” with perhaps one special case for climb walls is still far simpler than the official multiple stat percentile system, with functionally similar outcomes.

The schedule of thief hear noise improvement (from Greyhawk, page 11) is as follows. (Thanks to ODD74 for discussion about interpreting hear noise in the OD&D context.)

OD&D Thief Hear Noise
Level 1–2 3–6 7–10 11–12 13–14
Hear Noise 1-2 1-3 1-4 1-5 1-6
Effective d6 bonus +1 +2 +3 +4 +5

However, just when I was about to throw in my lot with this method, I realized that it does not allow for the variable degrees of success that I use with the old percentile system. That is, using d6, and without another roll, how do I distinguish between “no progress” and catastrophe? 16% (1 in 6) is too high of a chance for critical failure. In my current approach to thief skills, this is pretty important. Basically, if you fail your thief skill roll, but don’t roll 96 or higher, you don’t obtain your objective, but you can try again. The top 5% is the equivalent of rolling a natural 1 on an attack roll.

According to Greyhawk (page 11), pickpocket or move silently is the most favorable thief skill column, so one could just use that as a general thievery skill similarly to how Jack uses hear noise and preserve the 5% fumble chance.

Petitions

James Tissot - Noah's Sacrifice

James Tissot – Noah’s Sacrifice (source)

This is an extension and refinement (I hope) of some recent ideas regarding cleric magic. It has some atmosphere that I like, but I worry that it is A) too complicated and B) overpowered. Opinions on both of those aspects would be appreciated.

There are four categories of cleric magic, called petitions. All require calling upon holy power, and thus are subject to mysterious divine whims. The four categories are commands, prayers, rituals, and abjurations. The first three types of cleric powers map to the three game timescales: combat rounds, dungeon exploration turns, and days (the turn unit for wilderness exploration). A petition requires the given amount of time to attempt, at the end of which a petition check is made (see below). Thus, commands are the only petitions that can be used during combat since they only require a round. No petitions need to be prepared beforehand, with the exception of abjurations.

The petition check uses 2d6 and works much like a reaction roll. Half level (round up) is added as a bonus. An unmodified 2 is always a failure and an unmodified 12 is always a success. An abjuration petition check of 2 ends the abjuration. Thus, if you roll a 2 for turn undead, your deity has deserted you. A vial of holy water may be used for a +1 bonus to the petition check (holy water is encumbering, may be used no more than once per check, and is consumed when used in this way). Petition checks for commands and abjurations are opposed (penalized) by enemy hit dice. Other petition checks have a difficulty numer (equivalent to the old spell level ranking) which is listed in the table of petitions below (in parentheses).

Petition Roll
2d6 Result
2 or less Abandoned (given petition no longer available this session, abjuration ends)
3, 4, 5 Spurned (further attempting this petition is at -1)
6, 7, 8 Ignored (failure, may try again with no penalties)
9, 10, 11 Answered (standard success)
12 or more Rewarded (double effect, demons or undead destroyed, etc)

Abjurations are defensive magics, and only one can be active at any given time. The player must decide which before the session starts. They function like rituals in that they require a day of preparation, but they then remain active during the entire following day. Petition checks are used when the abjuration is challenged rather than when the ritual is performed. So, for example, if a demon attempts to touch a cleric that has protection from evil active, then the player rolls a petition check (penalized by the demon’s HD) to see if the demon is able to overcome the holy protection. Abjurations also have their dangers: in some situations, they may function as beacons.

Cleric Petitions
Level Command Prayer Ritual Abjuration
1 turn undead
2 cure light wounds (1)
detect evil (1)
detect magic (1)
light (1)
purify food & water (1) protection from evil
3
4 hold person speak with animals (2)
find traps (2)
bless
5
6 sticks to snakes neutralize poison (4)
cure serious wounds (4)
speak with plants (4)
remove curse (3)
cure disease (3)
locate object (3)
protection from evil, 10’r (4)
create water (4)
continual light
7 dispel evil
quest
raise dead (5)
commune (5)
insect plague (5)
create food (5)

The metaconcept of spell level has been discarded (though you can still see some of the spell levels show up as difficulty numbers), and the various petitions have been bound to character level directly. The levels that various powers are gained at is the same as in the 3 LBBs. I’m pretty sure this is not the best arrangement; the various powers should probably be more evenly distributed around the levels (that’s probably a task for a future post). It is particularly odd that the level 3 and 4 spells both become available at cleric level 6 in the original rules. It may seem like cleric levels 3 and 5 are “dead,” but this is actually not the case as the “half level” (competency) bonus is incremented at both of those levels.

Some specific spell interpretations using this system. Cure spells may not be used more than once per character per encounter (and may cause aging). Continual light is a ward against shadows, functions as sunlight, penalizes or prevents hide in shadows (depending on situation) and moves with the person of the cleric. Purify food & water is not usable offensively against water weirds unless you can force them to sit still for a long time.

These changes may grant the cleric more power. The petition check system introduces the chance of failure in any given situation and also consumes diegetic time (potentially exposing the PCs to random encounters). Despite those balancing factors, it seems like the cleric should formally become the “medium armor” adventurer (as she probably always should have been) so that heavy armor can become the purview of the fighter.

Some petition check examples:

  1. A level 6 cleric prays for speak with plants. Spend 1 dungeon exploration turn in prayer, then roll 2d6 +3 -4, which simplifies to 2d6 -1, and consult the petition roll table. If the result is a failure (but not a 2 or less), the cleric can try again if another turn is spent.
  2. A 2 HD demon attempts to challenge the protection from evil abjuration of a fifth level cleric. Player rolls 2d6 +3 -2, which simplifies to 2d6 +1, and consults the petition roll table to see if the abjuration holds the demon at bay. Even if the demon overcomes the abjuration, as long as a 2 or less is not rolled, the abjuration endures and the demon will need to overcome it again for further attacks.

The system is designed to almost guarantee success (just like how I handle thief skills) as long as enough time is spent, assuming 2 or less is not rolled.

Rationalized hit dice

Hit dice in the original little brown books only used six sided dice. Plusses were applied to modulate the values by class. So (ignoring constitution for simplicity), a fourth level fighter would have 4d6 HP, whereas a fourth level magic-user would have 2d6+1 HP. Coming to OD&D from one of the later editions, the absence of different hit dice is one of the most striking differences (along with flat d6 weapon damage, to which the size of hit dice is related). This approach was dropped almost immediately, in Supplement I: Greyhawk, and forever after different classes have used different sized dice for their hit points.

I have come to appreciate the hit dice being only from six siders. It keeps the totals grounded. It works particularly well with rerolling per session (the scalar bonuses feel less strange, as they just modify the per-session expected value slightly). However, the actual progression seems somewhat arbitrary and unmotivated. For example, the original fighter “dice for accumulative hits” progression was, by level:

Level 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
HD 1+1 2 3 4 5+1 6 7+1 8+2 9+3 10+1

What’s up with that?

It’s relatively easy to fix, though. Here is my proposal, broken down into progressions for high (fighter), medium (cleric), and low (magic-user) hit dice.

Level High Medium Low
1 1d6+1 1d6 1d6
2 2d6+1 2d6 1d6+1
3 3d6+1 2d6+1 2d6
4 4d6+1 3d6 2d6+1
5 5d6+1 4d6 3d6
6 6d6+1 4d6+1 3d6+1
7 7d6+1 5d6 4d6
8 8d6+1 6d6 4d6+1
9 9d6+1 6d6+1 5d6
10 10d6+1 7d6 5d6+1

The patterns should be easily intelligible. The expected values are relatively close to the originals, though in Men & Magic the magic-user gets all the way up to 9+2 (by 16th level). Gary sure did love the wizards.

What about after tenth level? My inclination would be to halt HD growth entirely past tenth level. A sort of soft E10. It would also be reasonable to keep adding some bonus HP though, in the manner of AD&D. I would probably just make it a flat +1 per level for every level above ten, irrespective of class. Going much above +1 would start to overwhelm the d6 values, unlike the larger hit dice sized used by AD&D, so probably best not to adopt the AD&D numbers (given characters of equal level, the relationship of fighter > cleric > magic-user will still obtain, which I think is the most important thing).

OD&D loyalty & morale

In OD&D, when a retainer is hired, the referee secretly rolls 3d6 (adjusting for employer charisma) for the loyalty of that specific retainer, and records the result (this is in Men & Magic, page 13). Morale bonuses are then derived from this loyalty score, as follows:

Effects of Loyalty on Morale (OD&D)
Loyalty Morale
3 or less
Will desert at first opportunity
4-6
-2 on morale dice
7-8
-1 on morale dice
9-12
Average morale dice
13-14
+1 on morale dice
15-18
+2 on morale dice
19 and above
Need never check morale

This mechanic is, in terms of D&D at least, unique to the 3 LBBs as far as I know. Holmes does not seem to include rules for loyalty or morale, though the paragraph on charisma notes that it should affect retainers (just not how). Moldvay breaks this indirect relationship and just derives retainer morale directly from employer charisma.

What advantage might be gained by doing it the OD&D way? Well, being a 3d6 score gives loyalty a nice bell curve distribution. Most retainers are going to have average loyalty most of the time (adjusted for charisma, of course), but all retainers are going to have poor loyalty every once in a while. This doesn’t guarantee that they will seek other work, but it does affect the morale checks that happen until the next loyalty check. Speaking of which, when should loyalty be re-rolled?

Periodic re-checks of loyalty should be made. Length of service, rewards, etc. will bring additional plusses. Poor treatment will bring minuses.

Per adventure seems like a good starting point, but per session might be a bit too frequent. For the kind of game that I am running right now (G+ hangout, 3 hours per session, explore whatever you like), a re-roll per significant event might be more reasonable. Or maybe I’ll just leave the loyalty score as a constant once it is rolled, a sort of reliability and trustworthiness measure for the retainer in question. The actual morale system is also not clearly defined in the 3 LBBs. They suggest either using the negotiation reaction table on page 12 or the morale rules from Chainmail.

The rules in Chainmail don’t look very well suited for use with retainers. For one thing, they are based on the type of unit (heavy horse having the best morale and peasants having the worst). Also, morale checks are triggered by percentages of casualties taken. The 2d6 reaction/negotiation table from Men & Magic looks much more usable (something like: 3-5, flees/refuses; 6-8 follows orders; 9-12 obeys enthusiastically).

To compare, in Moldvay Basic retainer morale is derived directly from the employers charisma score. This would work out to be 7 + charisma modifier (which has a nice elegance to it, given that the expected value of 2d6 is 7), but this nice symmetry is ruined by the fact that the Moldvay charisma modifier only goes up to 2 in either direction! I never noticed that before.

Morale of Retainers (Moldvay)
Charisma Morale of Retainers
3
4
4-5
5
6-8
6
9-12
7
13-15
8
16-17
9
18
10

 

According to Moldvay, retainers only need to check morale between adventures “unless the danger is greater than might reasonably be expected” (page B27). The check is done with 2d6, just like monster morale, against the number from that table above, though modified for good or bad treatment. In this system, all retainers have the same inherent loyalty for any given employer.

I’m leaning towards using a system based only on material in Men & Magic. That would be the 3d6 loyalty score as described above, along with a negotiation roll using the morale bonus for situations that require a morale check. I kind of like the individualization the loyalty score gives to NPCs.

The OD&D Engine

In preparation for my OD&D game, I’ve been going back through the 3 LBBs to review the rules. Here is a summary of what makes up the game. Of all of the systems discussed below, only four are affected by ability scores. The social reaction mechanics are affected by charisma, the attack roll for missile weapons is affected by dexterity, and the hit die (HP) roll is affected by constitution. I have marked these with the tag [ABILITY]. Some other systems are affected by level, and I have marked them with the tag [LEVEL].

Here are the major player-facing resolution systems:

  • Attack roll (d20 roll high with difficulty matrix) [ABILITY, LEVEL]
  • Saving throw (d20 roll high with difficulty matrix) [LEVEL]
  • 2d6 roll for turning undead (for the cleric) [LEVEL]
  • Percentile roll based on investment for magical research
  • Percentile skills for the thief [LEVEL]
  • 1d6 damage roll
  • 1d6 HP per hit die is the other side of the damage roll [ABILITY]
  • 3d6 determination of ability scores

Magical research is arguably based on level, since you can only research spells of a power that you can cast, but other than that characters don’t get better at it, so I’m leaving off the tag. A roll-under ability score check is also easy to bolt on (and something I will almost certainly use), though it doesn’t show up anywhere in OD&D that I am aware of.

The referee uses all the player-facing systems, along with several others:

  • 2d6 reaction roll (for social interactions) [ABILITY]
    • Monster reaction: 2-5: negative, 6-8: uncertain, 9-12: positive
    • Hiring monsters: 2 attack, 3-5: hostile, 6-8:uncertain, 9-11: accept, 12 enthusiast (+3 loyalty)
  • 3d6 determination of retainer loyalty [ABILITY]
  • Evasion/pursuit actions: too complicated to summarize
  • Chance to drop something if surprised: 25%
  • Random encounter: 1d6, chance by location, 1 in 6 is common
  • Hear noise: 1 in 6 or 2 in 6 for demihumans
  • Force doors: 2 in 6 or 1 in 6 for smaller characters
  • Search: 2 in 6 or 4 in 6 for elves, which also have passive 2 in 6
  • Party/monsters surprised: 2 in 6
  • Trap triggers: 2 in 6
  • Stronghold occupant action: 3 in 6, 2 in 6, or 1 in 6 (by hex distance)

This may look complicated, but all other than the first several they are really just 16%, 33%, or 66%. In other words: rare, uncommon, and common; or hard, medium, and easy. Talysman also has a good summary of the various d6 rolls.

There are other systems for stocking dungeons, generating treasure hoards, and populating strongholds, but they are more prep aids than game mechanics (I’m not saying that prep aids are unimportant to the game, merely that they are not required for running it). There are also subsystems for ariel and naval combat, but they are closer to separate minigames.

In the alternative combat system (which is really the standard “roll a d20” combat system), characters don’t just gain an attack bonus (or THAC0 improvement), instead they advance through a series of combat ranks (the LBBs don’t use this terminology, but it is clear from the tables). All classes begin with the same “to hit” skill (a 10 being required to hit an unarmored enemy). Fighters improve in groups of three levels, clerics and thieves in groups of four, and magic-users in groups of five. For example, magic-users of level 6 – 10 attack as fighters of level 4 – 6.

The only tables required during play are:

  1. Attack matrix 1: characters attacking (M&M p19)
  2. Attack matrix 2: monsters attacking (M&M p20)
  3. Saving throw matrix (M&M p22)

These can be considered the engine of play (what might be called core mechanics in more recent games) rather than game entities which are affected by engine results. Also notable, the game is almost entirely located in Men & Magic, whereas the contents of Monsters & Treasure and The Underworld & Wilderness Adventures are more implied setting (with the exception of the mass combat minigames). And data from items one and three will probably be copied to PC character sheets, which means that the sum total of required lookup tables for 3 LBB D&D is one!

There is clearly space here for a few more play tables, such as the Arduin critical hits table, or Jeff’s carousing table. Equipment prices, spell details, and monster stats are not strictly speaking required during play, as those are generally referenced between sessions with the relevant data being copied to character sheets or referee notes. They can be used “just in time” during play, but may be predecided, unlike the systems noted above which must be consulted during play. The following tables are on the borderline between for prep and for play; I could see occasionally wanting to consult them at the table, but most of the time they can be used offline.

  • Ability score consequences (M&M p11-12)
  • Experience and hit die progression tables, one per class (M&M p16-18)
  • Spell progression table for the magic-user (M&M p17)
  • Spell progression table for the cleric (M&M p18)
  • Clerics versus undead monsters (M&M p22)
  • Thief skills (Greyhawk p4-5, p11)

Given how these systems are scattered around the 3 LBBs, I’m sure I missed one or two, but I think I have covered all the important ones.

OD&D ability scores

Ability scores are explained on pages 10, 11, and 12 of Men & Magic. Here is an alternate presentation.

Abilities
3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18
Str Ftr XP -20% -10% +5% +10%
Int M-U XP -20% -10% +5% +10%
Lang. Common + Alignment +1 +2 +3 +4 +5 +6 +7 +8
Wis Clr XP -20% -10% +5% +10%
Con HP -1 per HD +1 per HD
Survive 40-50% 60-90% 100%
Dex Missile -1 +1
Cha Hirelings 1 2 3 4 5 6 12
Loyalty -2 -1 +1 +2 +4

I think this table makes the effects of ability scores much clearer without needing to shoehorn them into a common pattern. This table could be printed on character sheets, and then the character attributes could be circled, or highlighted like a bar graph, as shown below.